Classical Origins: The Greek Identity of the Macedonians

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Back in the mid 2000s I regularly visited a Greek website dedicated to debunking myths about the origins of Macedonia. Unfortunately that site is no longer around. Anyone with a basic grasp of history knows that the ancient Macedonians were Greek, but the people of FYROM a nation fabricated by communist influences have been on an internet campaign to spread lies. They claim that they are the direct descendants of the Macedonians and denying their Greek identity. The website I used to visit was full of well educated Greeks who shared extensive historical information proving the Greek heritage of the Macedonians. Fortunately I saved all that valuable content on my hard drive. I've taken the time to verify the quotes and compile them for everyone to access. The credit goes to those who originally did the work, not me.


Ancient Sources on Macedonia

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Varia Historia by Aelian, specifically Book VII, Chapter 8

On Hephaestion's Death:
"When Hephaestion died at Ecbatana (in 324), Alexander placed his weapons upon the funeral pyre, with gold and silver for the dead man, and a robe—which last, among the Persians is a symbol of great honor. He shore off his own hair, as in Homeric grief, and behaved like the Achilles of Homer. Indeed he acted more violently and passionately than the latter, for he caused the towers and strongholds of Ecbatana to be demolished all around. As long as he only dedicated his own hair, he was behaving, I think, like a Greek; but when he laid hands on the very walls, Alexander was already showing his grief in foreign fashion. Even in his clothing he departed from ordinary custom, and gave himself up to his mood, his love, and his tears."
Aelian, the Roman author and teacher of rhetoric, often referred to Macedonians as Greeks in his writings. In the passage above, Aelian distinguishes between Greek customs and the “foreign” customs that Alexander adopts after Hephaestion’s death. This indicates that Aelian considered the Macedonians part of the Greek world

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Quintus Curtius Rufus’ Histories of Alexander the Great

On Perdiccas:
"Perdiccas the Macedonian who accompanied Alexander on his expedition was apparently so courageous that he once went alone into a cave where a lioness had her lair. He did not catch the lioness, but he emerged carrying her cubs. Perdiccas won admiration for this feat. Not only Greeks, but barbarians as well, are convinced that the lioness is an animal of great bravery and very difficult to contend with."
— 12.37(39)

Aelian speaks of Perdiccas the Macedonian and mentions that “Not only Greeks, but barbarians as well, are convinced that the lioness is an animal of great bravery and very difficult to contend with,” hints at a distinction made between Greeks and barbarians. By including Macedonians in the same context as Greeks rather than barbarians, Aelian implicitly suggests that he viewed Macedonians as part of the Greek world.

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Aphrahat/Aphraates (c.280-367) Book of Daniel

On the Ram and the He-Goat:
"Again the ram was lifted up and exalted, and pushed with its horns towards the west, and towards the north, and towards the south, and humbled many beasts. And they could not stand before him, until the he-goat came from the west and smote the ram and broke his horns and humbled the ram completely. But the ram was the King of Media and Persia, that is, Darius; and the he-goat was Alexander, the son of Philip, the Macedonian. For Daniel saw the ram when he was in the East before the gate of Shushan the fortress that is in the province of Elam, upon the river Ulai. And he was pushing towards the West and towards the North and towards the South. And none of the beasts could stand before him. And the he-goat of the goats came up from the region of the Greeks, and exalted himself against the ram, And he smote him and broke both his horns, the greater and the lesser. And why did he say that he broke both his horns? Clearly because he humbled both the kingdoms which he ruled; the lesser, that of the Medes, and the greater, that of the Persians. But when Alexander the Greek came, he slew Darius, King of Media and Persia. For thus the angel said to Daniel, when he was explaining the vision to him:—The ram that thou sawest was the King of Media and Persia, and the he-goat the King of the Greeks. Now, from the time that the two horns of the ram were broken, until this time, there have been six hundred and forty-eight years."

The quote describes a vision from the Book of Daniel in the Bible, where a ram and a he-goat symbolize historical empires and rulers. In this passage, the ram represents the Medo-Persian Empire, led by King Darius, while the he-goat represents Alexander the Great, who is referred to as “the son of Philip, the Macedonian.” It also refers to Alexander as “the King of the Greeks.”

This passage explicitly identifies Alexander as a Greek, which aligns with the view that the Macedonian kingdom, under his rule, was considered part of the Greek world. The term “Alexander the Greek” is used to emphasize his role as the leader who came from the region associated with Greece. The passage uses this distinction to illustrate the conflict between the Persian Empire and Alexander’s forces, which were united under a Greek identity.

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Demonstration 5 by Aphrahat

On the Leopard and the Four Wings:
"And concerning the third beast he said that it was like a leopard, and it had four birds' wings on its back and that beast had four heads. Now this third beast was Alexander the Macedonian. For he was strong as a leopard. And as for the four wings and the four heads that the beast had, that was because he gave the kingdom to his four friends to govern after him, when he had come and slain Darius and reigned in his stead."

This quote refers to another vision from the Book of Daniel, in which the third beast is described as a leopard with four wings and four heads. This beast is identified as Alexander the Macedonian, symbolizing his swiftness and strength in conquering vast territories. The four wings and four heads represent the division of his empire among his four generals after his death: Ptolemy, Seleucus, Cassander, and Lysimachus. It acknowledges the power and reach of Alexander the Great’s conquests, which were rooted in the Hellenic (Greek) world. Historically, the Macedonian Empire, under Alexander, was seen as a significant force in the expansion of Greek culture and influence. After Alexander’s conquests, Greek culture spread widely, and the subsequent Hellenistic period is marked by the fusion of Greek and Eastern elements across his former empire.

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Aphrahat’s Demonstrations, from Demonstration 5

On the Fourth Beast:
"And of the fourth beast he said that it was exceedingly terrible and strong and mighty, devouring and crushing and trampling with its feet anything that remained. It is the kingdom of the children of Esau. Because after that Alexander the Macedonian became king, the kingdom of the Greeks was founded, since Alexander also was one of them, even of the Greeks. But the vision of the third beast was fulfilled in him, since the third and the fourth were one. Now Alexander reigned for twelve years. And the kings of the Greeks arose after Alexander, being seventeen kings, and their years were two hundred and sixty-nine years from Seleucus Nicanor to Ptolemy. And the Caesars were from Augustus to Philip Caesar, seventeen kings. And their 359 years are two hundred and ninety-three years; and eighteen years of Severus."

In this passage, the author identifies the fourth beast as a representation of the “kingdom of the children of Esau,” which is often interpreted as a symbol for a later, mighty kingdom, sometimes associated with the Roman Empire in various interpretations of biblical prophecy. However, what’s particularly relevant here is the identification of Alexander as being part of the Greeks.

The text states that after Alexander the Macedonian became king, the “kingdom of the Greeks” was founded, explicitly including Alexander as one of the Greeks. This statement aligns with the idea that Alexander and his Macedonian kingdom were considered part of the Greek world. It acknowledges that his rule led to the establishment of Greek dominance across the vast territories he conquered.

Furthermore, the passage notes that the subsequent rulers of the “kingdom of the Greeks” were successors of Alexander, highlighting the spread of Greek culture and influence during the Hellenistic period following his conquests. This period was characterized by the blending of Greek culture with those of the Near East and beyond, extending Greek influence far beyond its traditional borders.

Thus, this passage reinforces the view that Alexander the Macedonian was regarded as a Greek and that his conquests and the resulting Hellenistic kingdoms were seen as an extension of Greek civilization. It emphasizes Alexander’s role in establishing Greek hegemony and the cultural legacy that continued through his successors.

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Isidore of Seville, Chronicon

On Darius and Alexander:
"Darius ruled for six years. Alexander, conquering Illyricum and Thrace, from there took Jerusalem and, entering the Temple, burned sacrifices to God. The kingdom of the Persians still remained standing. From this point began the kings of the Greeks."

The passage states that Alexander was considered Greek. It states, "From this point began the kings of the Greeks," directly associating Alexander's conquests with the beginning of Greek rule. This phrasing suggests that Alexander's actions were seen as the foundation of Greek dominance in the region, which aligns with the historical understanding of Alexander as a figure who significantly expanded Greek culture and influence through his empire.

By noting the transition from Persian to Greek rule and attributing this shift to Alexander, the passage implies that Alexander and his successors were viewed as Greek rulers. This aligns with the broader historical perspective that, under Alexander, the Macedonian kingdom was part of the Greek world, especially considering how his conquests led to the spread of Hellenistic culture across a vast territory. Therefore, this passage indicates that Alexander was seen as a Greek leader who ushered in an era of Greek influence.

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Isidore of Seville’s Chronicon

On Alexander's Reign:
"Alexander the Macedonian ruled for fifteen years. In his last five years, in the order of years by which they are numbered, he obtained the monarchy of Asia, having destroyed the kingdom of the Persians. His first seven years are thought to have been spent among the kings of the Persians. From this point begin the kings of Alexandria."
This passage doesn’t explicitly call Alexander “Greek,” but it places him within the context of Greek influence. By marking the start of Greek rule with Alexander’s conquests, it implies that his actions and the subsequent spread of Hellenistic culture were seen as an extension of Greek power, even though he was Macedonian. In the historical and cultural context, Alexander is often associated with the spread of Greek language, culture, and political structures, which is why he is frequently regarded as a key figure in Greek history.

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Isidore of Seville’s Chronicon

On Ptolemy Philadelphus:
"Ptolemy Philadelphus ruled for thirty-eight years. He released the Jews that were in Egypt and, restoring the holy vase to Eleazar the priest, he sought out seventy translators and translated the divine scriptures into Greek. At the same time Aratus was acknowledged as an astrologer and the silver coins of the Romans were minted for the first time."

This quote shows how Greek culture and language were significant under the rule of the Hellenistic kings who succeeded Alexander the Great.

Ptolemy Philadelphus a Greek from the city state Macedonia was part of the ruling dynasty in Egypt that was established by Ptolemy I, one of Alexander’s generals. The Ptolemaic rulers promoted Greek culture and language in their domains. This is evidenced by the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek (the Septuagint), which was a significant cultural event and an example of the spread of Hellenistic (Greek-influenced) culture. The passage also notes that Ptolemy released Jewish captives and restored sacred objects, showing his engagement with the diverse cultures within his realm while still emphasizing the role of Greek as a unifying language.

Their rule is often considered part of the broader Hellenistic era, during which Greek culture was dominant across the regions Alexander had conquered. In this sense, the passage hints at the influence and spread of Greek culture through the actions of these rulers rather than directly stating that they were Greek by ethnicity. It underscores the Greek cultural and linguistic influence that defined the period following Alexander’s conquests.

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Etymologiae Book XIV, Chapter 4, Section 7

On the Provinces of Greece:
"Greece has seven provinces, Dalmatia being the first on the western side, then Epirus, Hellas, Thessaly, Macedonia and finally Achaea and the two provinces of the sea, Crete and the Cyclades."

This quote lists regions considered part of “Greece,” indicating a broad definition of the Greek world in a historical context. The regions mentioned include Dalmatia, Epirus, Hellas, Thessaly, Macedonia, Achaea, Crete, and the Cyclades.

The passage suggests that Macedonia was considered an integral part of the greater Greek world, indicating that the ancient Greeks themselves (or those who recorded this description) viewed Macedonia as one of the Greek provinces. This perspective aligns with the understanding that, despite political and regional differences, the Macedonians were considered part of the broader Greek ethnicity, especially in terms of shared culture, language, and religious practices.

Such classifications demonstrate how ancient geography and identity were fluid but still acknowledged the cultural and ethnic connections between regions. The inclusion of Macedonia in this list reinforces the view that ancient Macedonians were seen as part of the Greek world.

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Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus

On Alexander's Visit to the Temple:
"And when he had said this to Parmenio, and had given the high priest his right hand, the priests ran along by him, and he came into the city. And when he went up into the temple, he offered sacrifice to God, according to the high priest's direction, and magnificently treated both the high priest and the priests. And when the Book of Daniel was showed him wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended. And as he was then glad, he dismissed the multitude for the present; but the next day he called them to him, and bid them ask what favors they pleased of him."

This passage comes from the writings of the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, specifically from his work "Antiquities of the Jews." In this account, Alexander the Great visits Jerusalem and meets the Jewish high priest. The high priest shows Alexander the Book of Daniel, interpreting its prophecy as foretelling the conquest of the Persian Empire by a Greek, which Alexander identifies as himself.

The passage indicates that Alexander was considered "one of the Greeks," directly identifying him with the Greek world. Josephus presents Alexander as recognizing his own role in the fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel, seeing himself as the Greek leader destined to overthrow the Persian Empire. This narrative supports the view that Alexander, though Macedonian by birth, was viewed and viewed himself as a representative of Greek culture and destiny.

This account from Josephus serves to illustrate how ancient sources perceived Alexander as part of the Greek identity, both in the sense of his cultural heritage and in the larger geopolitical context of his conquests. It shows that even in other cultures' narratives, Alexander was associated with Greek identity, reinforcing the idea that the Macedonian kingdom under his rule was an extension of the Greek world.

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Livy’s History of Rome Book 31, Chapter 7

On the Parthians:
"Or was there any danger of that happening which the most frivolous of the Greeks, who actually extol the Parthians at the expense of the Romans, are so constantly harping upon, namely, that the Roman people must have bowed before the greatness of Alexander's name—though I do not think they had even heard of him—and that not one out of all the Roman chiefs would have uttered his true sentiments about him, though men dared to attack him in Athens, the very city which had been shattered by Macedonian arms and almost well in sight of the smoking ruins of Thebes, and the speeches of his assailants are still extant to prove this?"

This passage from a Roman perspective, Livy, discussing the idea that the Roman people might have feared the greatness of Alexander the Great had they encountered him. The author is skeptical of this notion, suggesting that even in Alexander's time, some Greeks criticized him, including those from Athens, despite the city's subjugation by Macedonian power and the destruction of Thebes by Alexander.

The passage emphasizes that Alexander was indeed a figure of great renown, but it also points out that not all Greeks were in awe of him; some even openly opposed or criticized him. It highlights the fact that Alexander was seen as a powerful figure, particularly by his own contemporaries and later generations, but it also suggests that his greatness was not universally accepted without question, even among the Greeks.

In terms of Greek identity, this text further reinforces that Alexander was considered a Greek or at least part of the Greek sphere, as he and his actions were discussed and debated by the Greeks of his time. The Roman author's dismissive tone towards the idea that Rome would have feared Alexander indicates a degree of rivalry between the Greek and Roman civilizations, with Rome later inheriting and reshaping much of the Hellenistic world that Alexander had helped to create.

Overall, this passage hints at Alexander's complex legacy as both a Macedonian and a Greek figure, recognized by contemporaries and later historians as a monumental force in the ancient world.

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Livy’s History of Rome Book 32, Chapter 22

On the Argives and Philip:
"As for the Argives, apart from their belief that the Macedonian kings were descended from them, most of them were also attached to Philip by individual ties of hospitality and close personal friendships."

This passage suggests a strong connection between the Macedonians and the Greeks, particularly the Argives. It mentions that the Argives believed the Macedonian kings, including Philip and Alexander, were descended from them. This connection would be based on the mythological lineage that the Argead dynasty of Macedon, to which Alexander belonged, traced its origins to Argos, a city in the Greek region of the Peloponnese. According to this tradition, the Macedonian royal family claimed descent from the hero Heracles, who was linked to the Argive royal line.

Additionally, the passage points out that many Argives had personal ties to Philip II, Alexander’s father, through hospitality and friendships. This indicates a sense of kinship or alliance, further suggesting that the Macedonian rulers were considered part of the broader Greek world by some Greek city-states.

This connection to Argos and the broader Greek cultural sphere reinforces the idea that the Macedonians, particularly their ruling dynasty, were seen as having Greek roots. This belief helped establish the legitimacy of Macedonian rulers in the eyes of the Greeks, especially during Philip's and Alexander's campaigns, when they presented themselves as unifiers and leaders of the Hellenic world against common enemies like the Persian Empire.

Therefore, this passage shows that the Macedonian kings, despite their northern origin and different political structure, were acknowledged by most Greeks as part of the Greek cultural and mythological heritage.

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Livy’s History of Rome Book 45, Chapter 29

On General Paulus:
"General Paulus of Rome surrounded by the ten Commissioners took his official seat surrounded by the whole crowds of Macedonians. Paulus announced in Latin the decisions of the Senate, as well as his own, made by the advice of his council. This announcement was translated into Greek and repeated by Gnaeus Octavius the Praetor—for he too was present."

This passage describes a historical event during the Roman conquest of Macedonia, specifically when General Lucius Aemilius Paulus, a Roman general, addressed the Macedonians after the Roman victory. It illustrates the formal process where Roman decisions were made and communicated to the Macedonians.

Several key points in this passage relate to the cultural and linguistic dynamics of the time:

1. Use of Latin and Greek: Paulus delivered his speech in Latin, which was then translated into Greek by Gnaeus Octavius. This practice shows the necessity of communicating in Greek to the Macedonian population, indicating that Greek was the common language understood by the Macedonians. It reflects the widespread use of Greek as the lingua franca in the Hellenistic world, including Macedonia.

2. Cultural Integration: The fact that the Romans felt the need to translate their announcements into Greek when addressing the Macedonians suggests that they recognized the cultural and linguistic connection between Macedonia and the broader Greek world. Greek was the dominant cultural and administrative language in the eastern Mediterranean, a legacy of Alexander the Great’s conquests.

3. Recognition of Greek Identity: The need for translation into Greek underscores the Greek identity of the Macedonians or at least their assimilation into Greek culture. By the time of the Roman conquest, Macedonia was considered part of the Hellenistic world, heavily influenced by Greek culture and language.

This passage indicates that the Romans acknowledged the Greek identity of the Macedonians, as they addressed them in Greek for official communications. It further demonstrates how the Macedonian region was integrated into the Greek cultural sphere, especially in terms of language, during and after the Hellenistic period.

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Pliny the Elder’s Natural History

On Greek Glory:

"Such, at all events, were the opinions generally entertained in the reign of Alexander the Great, at a time when Greece was at the height of her glory, and the most powerful country in the world."

This passage portrays a perception of Greece during the reign of Alexander the Great as being at the "height of her glory" and "the most powerful country in the world." This description acknowledges the significant cultural, military, and political influence that Greece, particularly under Alexander’s leadership, exerted at that time.

Several points can be drawn from this statement:

1. Greek Dominance Under Alexander: The reign of Alexander the Great marked a period when Greek culture and influence expanded dramatically. Through his conquests, Alexander spread Greek language, art, philosophy, and political ideals across a vast territory, which included Egypt, Persia, and parts of India. This era is known as the Hellenistic period, during which Greek culture blended with local customs to create a new cultural synthesis.

2. Unity of Greek Identity: Although Alexander was Macedonian, he is often credited with uniting the Greek city-states (albeit through force or diplomacy) and leading a combined Greek Macedonian campaign against the Persian Empire. This passage reflects the idea that Alexander’s conquests were seen as a collective achievement of the Greek world, enhancing Greece's glory and prestige on a global scale.

3. Cultural and Historical Impact: The phrase "height of her glory" suggests not only military power but also the flourishing of Greek culture, science, and philosophy. This period saw the spread of Greek thought, including the works of philosophers like Aristotle, who was Alexander’s tutor, throughout the known world. The establishment of cities such as Alexandria in Egypt became centers of learning and cultural exchange.

In summary, this passage acknowledges the era of Alexander the Great as a pinnacle of Greek influence and power. It reflects how ancient Greece, through Alexander's campaigns, came to be viewed as a dominant cultural and political force in the ancient world. This sentiment aligns with the historical view that, despite their distinctiveness, the Macedonians under Alexander were part of the broader Greek identity, contributing to what is often seen as a golden age of Greek civilization.

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Tacitus’s Annals

On Cappadocian Archelaus and Greek Cities:

"At this same time the Clitae, a tribe subject to the Cappadocian Archelaus, retreated to the heights of Mount Taurus, because they were compelled in Roman fashion to render an account of their revenue and submit to tribute. There they defended themselves by means of the nature of the country against the king's unwarlike troops, till Marcus Trebellius, whom Vitellius, the governor of Syria, sent as his lieutenant with four thousand legionaries and some picked auxiliaries, surrounded with his lines two hills occupied by the barbarians, the lesser of which was named Cadra, the other Davara. Those who dared to sally out, he reduced to surrender by the sword, the rest by drought. Tiridates meanwhile, with the consent of the Parthians, received the submission of Nicephorium, Anthemusias and the other cities, which having been founded by Macedonians, claim Greek names,

This passage is from a historical account describing events involving the Cappadocian king Archelaus and the resistance of the Clitae, a tribe under his rule, against Roman taxation. It also mentions cities founded by Macedonians that claim Greek names, indicating the spread of Greek culture and influence through the establishment of cities by Alexander the Great and his successors.

Key points to consider:

1. Hellenistic Influence: The mention of cities like Nicephorium and Anthemusias having Greek names and being founded by Macedonians highlights the spread of Greek culture during the Hellenistic period. After Alexander the Great's conquests, many cities were established or renamed in the Greek fashion, serving as centers of Greek culture, language, and governance across the vast territories Alexander had conquered.

2. Macedonian and Greek Identity: By noting that these cities were founded by Macedonians and claim Greek names, the passage underscores the close association between the Macedonians and Greek culture. Despite being Macedonian, the rulers and settlers from Alexander's empire adopted and propagated Greek language, art, architecture, and customs throughout the regions they controlled, reinforcing the idea of a shared Greek identity.

3. Roman Context: The passage also reflects the Roman perspective on these regions, showing how the Romans viewed and interacted with the legacy of Greek and Hellenistic culture. The Roman practice of imposing taxes and accounting on subject peoples was a point of contention, as seen in the Clitae’s resistance to Roman demands.

In summary, this passage illustrates the deep influence of Greek culture through the establishment of cities by the Macedonians, which continued to assert their Greek identity even under Roman rule. It shows how Greek culture remained a significant force in these regions, shaping identities and city foundations long after Alexander's era. The reference to the cities having Greek names further supports the idea that the legacy of Macedonian conquests was seen as an extension of Greek civilization.
 
Ancient Sources on Macedonians

Cambridge Ancient History, Vol. 4: "The Greek-speaking people with the shield-like hat were the Macedones, renowned for wearing the sun-hat, as Alexander I did on his fine coins from 478 B.C."

Persian Inscription: Yauna Takabara:

A Persian inscription dating from 513 BCE records the European peoples who were, at that date, subject to the Great King. One of these people is described as Yauna Takabara, meaning 'Ionians whose head-dress is like a shield'. The Persians, like other eastern peoples of antiquity, are known to have applied the term 'Ionians' to all Greeks. On the other hand, the head-dress resembling a shield has been rightly recognized as that depicted on Macedonian coins.
This passage discusses a Persian inscription from 513 BCE, which mentions a group called the "Yauna Takabara," translating to "Ionians whose head-dress is like a shield." The Persians used the term "Ionians" broadly to refer to all Greeks. The reference to a head-dress resembling a shield being depicted on Macedonian coins suggests a connection between this group and the ancient Macedonians.

Key points from this passage include:

1. Persian Perception of Greeks: The Persians, and other ancient eastern peoples, often referred to Greeks collectively as "Ionians," regardless of their specific city-state or region. This generalization indicates that the Persians viewed the Greeks as a distinct cultural group, including the Macedonians under this broader categorization.

2. Macedonian Identity: The description of the "head-dress resembling a shield" being depicted on Macedonian coins provides a link between the "Yauna Takabara" mentioned in the Persian inscription and the Macedonians. This suggests that the Persians recognized the Macedonians as part of the Greek world, even if they identified them through unique characteristics such as their distinctive attire.

3. Integration into the Greek Sphere: By being described as "Ionians" by the Persians, the Macedonians were implicitly grouped with the Greeks. This shows that, even before the rise of Alexander the Great, the Macedonians were seen as part of the wider Greek cultural and ethnic milieu by external observers like the Persians.

This inscription illustrates how ancient Macedonians were perceived by neighboring civilizations. While they had distinct regional characteristics, the Persians included them under the umbrella term for Greeks, indicating that they were seen as part of the Greek world. This perception aligns with the historical understanding that, despite some differences, the Macedonians were culturally and ethnically connected to the Greeks.

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Persian Story of Zulqarnain

Packard Humanities Institute - Persian Literature in Translation
Persian Texts in Translation:

"It has been mentioned above that, according to the majority of historians, there were no other prophets sent between Nūḥ and Ebrahim, except Hūd and Ṣāliḥ. Some of the ancients, however, tell us that the greater Zulqarneen had been honoured after Ṣāliḥ and before Ebrahim with the exalted dignity of ambassadorship and prophecy. Mujāhad has informed us after ‘Abdullah Bin ‘Umar that the greater Zulqarneen was one of the prophets sent by God. According to the most correct tradition Zulqarneen was not Alexander the Grecian, whose biography is recorded in the history of the kings of Persia, because his genealogy ascends to Yāfuth the son of Nūḥ, whereas Alexander the Greek is one of the descendants of ‘Ays the son of Isḥāq, of the children of Sām the son of Nūḥ."
This quote differentiates between two figures referred to as "Zulqarneen." It suggests that one of these figures is a prophet sent by God, existing between the time of Noah (Nūḥ) and Abraham (Ebrahim), while the other is "Alexander the Grecian," known from historical records of the kings of Persia.

In the context of this quote:

1. Distinction of Figures: It makes a clear distinction between a prophet known as "the greater Zulqarneen" and Alexander the Great. The prophet Zulqarneen is described as being from the descendants of Yāfuth, the son of Noah. In contrast, "Alexander the Greek" (Alexander the Great) is stated to be a descendant of ‘Ays, the son of Isaac, and thus, a descendant of Sām, the son of Noah.

2. Identification of Alexander: The text refers to Alexander as "the Greek," directly associating him with Greek heritage. This suggests that, at least in this source, Alexander the Great is acknowledged as being part of the Greek people.

3. Greek Identity of Macedonians: By referring to Alexander as "the Greek," the passage implicitly connects the Macedonians with Greek identity. Since Alexander the Great was the king of Macedonia, calling him "Alexander the Greek" hints that the Macedonians, particularly in the context of Alexander's era, were considered Greeks or closely linked to Greek culture.

This quote clearly state that the Macedonians, through Alexander the Great, were considered Greek. It recognizes Alexander as a Greek figure while distinguishing him from another figure known as Zulqarneen. The passage reflects a historical and cultural perspective that sees Alexander and his Macedonian background as part of the Greek world.

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Bahram Yasht, Zand-i Vohuman Yasht:

Zand-i Vohuman Yasht, chapter 3
Professor S. Eddy, University of Nebraska

34. "And then Mihr of the vast cattle-pastures cries thus: 'Of these nine thousand years' support, which during its beginning produced Dahak [Zohak] of evil religion, Frasiyav of Tur, and Alexander the Ruman, the period of one thousand years of those leather-belted demons with disheveled hair is a more than moderate reign to produce.'"

This passage is from a Zoroastrian or Persian source, which places Alexander the Great in the context of other rulers and figures that are considered adversaries or bringers of hardship. In this context, "Alexander the Ruman" (Roman) is mentioned alongside other figures like Dahak (Zohak) and Frasiyav, who are depicted negatively.

Key points from this passage include:

1. Alexander the Ruman: The term "Ruman" typically refers to Roman or Western, which might be a reference to Alexander in a broader sense as a foreign ruler from the West. Although Alexander was Macedonian, and hence Greek, he is here associated with Western or non-Persian influence, which might be seen as negative from the Zoroastrian or Persian perspective.

2. Cultural Perspective: The inclusion of Alexander alongside figures like Zohak and Frasiyav, who are portrayed as villains or evil rulers in Persian mythology, shows the Persian view of Alexander as an invader and a disruptor of the Persian way of life. The passage reflects how Alexander's conquests were seen from the perspective of those he conquered, particularly within the Persian Empire.

In summary, this quote hints at the broader perception of Alexander the Great as an outsider or foreign ruler. While it does not explicitly call him Greek, it places him in a context that reflects the cultural and historical impact of his conquests, which were a result of his role as a Macedonian (and thus Greek) ruler. This passage illustrates the Persian perspective on Alexander's invasions, where he is seen as a symbol of Western or Greek disruption to Persian tradition.

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Bahman Yasht and Zand

i Vohuman Yasht
Professor S. Eddy from University of Nebraska:

"It must follow that at least a part of the Bahman Yasht, the detailed picture of the apocalyptic conditions brought about by a successful invasion of Iran by foreigners, existed before the time of Ardashir I. The Bahman Yasht names its leader as Alexander the Great, who was called 'Destroyer of the Religion' and 'Invader.' The aggressors are once identified as Yunan, which is ancient Near Eastern usage for 'Greeks.'"

This quote states that the Macedonians being regarded as Greek in the context of the Bahman Yasht, a Zoroastrian text that describes apocalyptic conditions following the invasion of Iran by foreign forces. The passage mentions Alexander the Great as a "Destroyer of the Religion" and "Invader," identifying the aggressors as "Yunan."

In ancient Near Eastern usage, "Yunan" was a term broadly used to refer to Greeks. This indicates that the Macedonian invasion led by Alexander was perceived as a Greek invasion by the authors of the Bahman Yasht. Here are the key points that support this view:

1. Yunan as Greeks: The term "Yunan" is derived from "Ionia," a region of Greece, and was commonly used in the Near East to refer to Greeks in general. By identifying Alexander and his forces as "Yunan," the text implicitly includes the Macedonians as part of the Greek world.

2. Alexander's Association with Greek Identity: While Alexander was Macedonian, he was also seen as the leader of the Greeks in many ancient sources. His campaigns against Persia were often viewed as a continuation of the Greek struggle against the Persian Empire. This association with the Greeks was significant in how different cultures, including the Persians, perceived his conquests.

3. Cultural Perception: The passage reflects the perception of Alexander and his Macedonian forces as being part of a broader Greek cultural and military identity. The fact that the text refers to the invaders as "Yunan" underscores how the Macedonians, under Alexander's leadership, were considered Greek by their contemporaries, particularly by those who experienced his conquests.

In summary, the reference to Alexander the Great's forces as "Yunan" in the Bahman Yasht indicates that the Macedonians were regarded as Greeks in the cultural and historical context of this Zoroastrian text. This aligns with other historical sources that view Alexander's conquests as part of the expansion of Greek culture and influence in the ancient world.
 
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Ancient Indian Perspectives on the Greek Identity of Macedonians

Edicts of Ashoka (250 BCE)

The "Edicts of Ashoka" (c. 250 BCE) provide irrefutable evidence of the Greek ethnicity of ancient Macedonians. The Buddhist emperor Ashoka refers to the Greek populations under his rule. In Rock Edicts V and XIII, the Yonas (Greeks) are mentioned along with the Kambojas and Gandharas as a subject people forming a frontier region of his empire. Ashoka also sent envoys to Greek rulers in the West as far as the Mediterranean, naming them one by one.
The "Edicts of Ashoka" are a collection of inscriptions made by Emperor Ashoka of the Maurya Dynasty in India around 250 BCE. They provide significant historical insights into Ashoka's rule and his efforts to promote Buddhist principles across his empire. These edicts indeed mention various groups of people and rulers, including the Greeks.

  1. Reference to Greeks: In Rock Edicts V and XIII, Ashoka refers to the "Yonas" or "Ionians," a term used by ancient Indians to describe the Greeks. These edicts mention the Greeks along with other groups like the Kambojas and Gandharas, indicating the presence of Greek populations in the northwestern parts of Ashoka's empire, which were influenced by Greek culture following Alexander the Great's campaigns.
  2. Greek Rulers in the West: Ashoka also records sending Buddhist missionaries to several Hellenistic rulers in the West. Among those mentioned are Antiochus II of Syria, Ptolemy II of Egypt, Antigonus Gonatas of Macedonia, Magas of Cyrene, and Alexander of Epirus. This suggests that Ashoka recognized the Greek influence and the presence of Greek rulers across the Mediterranean region.
  3. Macedonian-Greek Connection: The reference to the "Yonas" includes people of Greek ethnicity, which would encompass the Macedonians who were known for spreading Greek culture throughout their conquests. The edicts imply that the Greeks, including the Macedonian settlers established after Alexander the Great's conquests, were part of the Hellenistic world known to Ashoka.
  4. Greek Ethnicity of Macedonians: This reference supports the idea that the ancient Macedonians were considered Greek by their contemporaries. By including the Macedonians under the general term "Greeks," Ashoka’s edicts acknowledge the spread of Greek culture and ethnicity, further indicating that the Macedonians were viewed as part of the Greek-speaking world.
In summary, the "Edicts of Ashoka" provide historical evidence that the Greeks, including the Macedonians, were recognized as a distinct cultural and ethnic group in ancient times. Ashoka's mention of the "Yonas" supports the view that the Macedonians were regarded as Greeks, especially in the context of the widespread influence of Hellenistic culture after Alexander's conquests.

In the Gandhari original of Rock XIII

Rock Edict XIII (S. Dhammika)

"Now it is conquest by Dhamma that Beloved-of-the-Gods considers to be the best conquest. And it (conquest by Dhamma) has been won here, on the borders, even six hundred yojanas away, where the Greek king Antiochos rules, beyond there where the four kings named Ptolemy, Antigonos, Magas, and Alexander rule, likewise in the south among the Cholas, the Pandyas, and as far as Tamraparni."

This quote from Ashoka's Rock Edict XIII mentions several Hellenistic kings, including Antiochos, Ptolemy, Antigonos, Magas, and Alexander. It shows Ashoka's recognition of these rulers and their territories, indicating his understanding of the extent of Hellenistic influence.

The reference to these kings as "Greek" suggests that Ashoka saw them as part of the broader Greek cultural and political sphere. These rulers were successors of Alexander the Great, and their kingdoms were part of the Hellenistic world that followed his conquests. Although they ruled over diverse regions, including Macedonia and Egypt, they maintained and spread Greek culture and political ideals.

By referring to these rulers as "Greek," Ashoka acknowledges the Macedonians' integration into the Hellenistic world. This implies that the Macedonians, under rulers like Antigonos and Alexander, were seen as part of the Greek-speaking and culturally Greek world. While Ashoka does not specifically call the Macedonians "Greek" in this passage, his grouping of these rulers under the term "Greek king" suggests a recognition of their cultural and ethnic connection to Greece.

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The Cambridge Shorter History of India" by Cambridge University Press (1934):

"It is evident then, from the testimony of the epigraphic records, that Ashoka ruled the whole of India except the extreme south, which was in the hands of the Cholas and Pandyas. The inscriptions refer also to the nations on the borders of the empire. There were in the south, as already mentioned, the Cholas and Pandyas, whose lands stretched as far as Tamraparni, i.e., Ceylon; while one edict adds two smaller border chiefs, the Keralaputra, i.e., the king of Kerala or Malabar, and the Satiyaputra, not yet satisfactorily identified, but probably connected with the Andhras. Mentioned along with these independent kingdoms of the south are the Yavana king, Antiyaka, that is the Seleucid Antiochos Theos, whose lands marched with the Maurya empire on the north-west, and the other Greek kings who were his neighbours. On the outer fringe of the empire, but within the king's territory, were the Yonas, the Greeks in the lands ceded by Seleucus to Chandragupta; other Yavanas are named, along with the Gandharas, apparently as independent; they were probably the rulers of southern Afghanistan and the land west of the upper Indus. The Kambojas, mentioned with them and located north-west of Gandhara in the Hindu Kush, spoke a semi-Iranian language and were regarded by Hindus as only half-civilized. Another group of frontier peoples living within the king's territory but probably retaining some vestiges of autonomy, belonged to the south."

This passage discusses Ashoka's empire and its borders, mentioning various regions and peoples, including the "Yonas" (Greeks) and "Yavana king, Antiyaka," identified as the Seleucid ruler Antiochos II Theos. This indicates a recognition of Greek presence and influence in regions adjacent to Ashoka's empire.

Here's how it hints that the Macedonians were considered Greek:

  1. Reference to Yonas and Greeks: The term "Yonas" is used in ancient Indian sources to describe Greeks, including the descendants of the Macedonians who settled in the eastern territories after Alexander the Great's conquests. The passage mentions "Yavana" (a term used to refer to Greeks or Hellenistic people) in relation to Antiochos and other Greek rulers, indicating that the Greeks, including those in the territories once ruled by Macedonians, were known and recognized in this context.
  2. Macedonian and Greek Identity: After Alexander the Great's conquests, the Macedonians were seen as part of the Greek world, especially in how they spread Greek culture and established Hellenistic kingdoms across the eastern Mediterranean and parts of Asia. The reference to these "Greek kings" and the "Yonas" in the context of Ashoka's inscriptions suggests that the Macedonians were included under the broader category of Greeks in these ancient Indian texts.
  3. Greek Influence in the Region: The passage indicates that Greeks (Macedonians and their successors) had a significant influence in the regions near the borders of Ashoka's empire. The mention of Greek rulers as neighbors to the Mauryan Empire and the presence of Greek populations within these territories reflect the extent of Hellenistic influence and the recognition of these people as Greeks.
In summary, this passage hints that the Macedonians were considered Greek through the use of terms like "Yonas" and "Yavana," which encompassed the Greeks, including those from Macedonian heritage. The inclusion of Macedonian-ruled territories and their populations under the Greek designation in Ashoka's records supports the notion of the Macedonians being seen as part of the Greek world.
 
Classical Origins: The Greek Identity of the Macedonians

Treaty Between Hannibal and Philip V of Macedon

Carthaginians


The Histories of Polybius, VII, 9, 4 (Loeb, W. R. Paton)
"In the presence of Zeus, Hera, and Apollo: in the presence of the Genius of Carthage, of Heracles, and Iolaus: in the presence of Ares, Triton, and Poseidon: in the presence of the gods who battle for us and the Sun, Moon, and Earth; in the presence of Rivers, Lakes, and Waters: in the presence of all the gods who possess Macedonia and the REST of Greece: in the presence of all the gods of the army who preside over this oath. Thus saith Hannibal the general, and all the Carthaginian senators with him, and all Carthaginians serving with him, that as seemeth good to you and to us, so should we bind ourselves by oath to be even as friends, kinsmen, and brothers, on these conditions:

This passage suggests that the Macedonians were considered part of the Greek world. The oath, presumably taken by Hannibal or another Carthaginian leader, invokes the gods "who possess Macedonia and the rest of Greece," indicating a recognition of Macedonia as being among the Greek territories.

Here are the key points that hint at the Macedonians being considered Greek:

  1. Shared Pantheon of Gods: The passage mentions a range of gods from the Greek pantheon, such as Zeus, Hera, Apollo, Heracles, and Poseidon. The invocation of these gods signifies a connection with Greek religion and culture. By including the gods "who possess Macedonia and the rest of Greece," it suggests that Macedonia was viewed as being under the same divine protection and religious sphere as the rest of Greece.
  2. Cultural Unity: By grouping Macedonia with "the rest of Greece," the text implies a cultural and geographical unity. This phrase acknowledges Macedonia as part of the larger Greek world, suggesting that the Carthaginians, at least in this context, saw the Macedonians as Greeks or as part of a Greek cultural sphere.
  3. Historical Context: During the time of Alexander the Great and his successors, Macedonia was a dominant force in the Hellenic world. Alexander's conquests spread Greek culture and influence throughout the known world, reinforcing the notion that Macedonia was an integral part of Greece.
In conclusion, this passage states that the Macedonians were considered Greek, in terms of their religious and cultural affiliation. By placing Macedonia alongside "the rest of Greece" and invoking Greek deities, it acknowledges the Macedonian connection to the broader Greek identity.
 
Keep it coming. I only skimmed through these quotes but I’m going to take a good look at them during the week. I’ve been so busy the past two weeks and haven’t had much time to post on here.
 
I’m trying. I have more stuff that i’m putting together to post on here.
 
Some random Albanian by the name of Zyhdi Gjuzi commented on the link I posted from here something with Illyrians lol.
He or she wrote ILYRIKUM _ILIRET. Some Albanians have this idea that Macedonians were Illyrians.

 
Some random Albanian by the name of Zyhdi Gjuzi commented on the link I posted from here something with Illyrians lol.
He or she wrote ILYRIKUM _ILIRET. Some Albanians have this idea that Macedonians were Illyrians.



Ah a keyboard warrior. That's nothing new. Albanians used to flood those old forums that I used to visit and claim the same thing with no historical proof to back up the info. At least if you're going to claim something provide some legit historical evidence. If I were you I'd just ignore them.
 
Είναι σαν κάποιος να αναστάτωσε τη φωλιά τους και είναι παντού. Το μόνο που χρειάζεται είναι ένας να αφήσει μια διαδρομή φερομόνης για να τον ακολουθήσουν οι υπόλοιποι και έτσι έγινε. Προσπαθώ πραγματικά να συμπεριφερθώ σωστά όμως σε λίγο θα σκάσω.
 
Είναι σαν κάποιος να αναστάτωσε τη φωλιά τους και είναι παντού. Το μόνο που χρειάζεται είναι ένας να αφήσει μια διαδρομή φερομόνης για να τον ακολουθήσουν οι υπόλοιποι και έτσι έγινε. Προσπαθώ πραγματικά να συμπεριφερθώ σωστά όμως σε λίγο θα σκάσω.

Let them spew their garbage. They look like idiots on there. You are talking about the trolls that are Albanian? I was in there reading the comment. Where do they come up with this stuff?
 
Είναι σαν κάποιος να αναστάτωσε τη φωλιά τους και είναι παντού. Το μόνο που χρειάζεται είναι ένας να αφήσει μια διαδρομή φερομόνης για να τον ακολουθήσουν οι υπόλοιποι και έτσι έγινε. Προσπαθώ πραγματικά να συμπεριφερθώ σωστά όμως σε λίγο θα σκάσω.

Maki you can expect trolls to show up whenever Greeks are discussing or celebrating their history. That's just what they do. These trolls often come from the same places, particularly from Albania and FYROM. Note I’m referring to the trolls only. A lot of them don’t bother trolling but some do. Anyway these nations don’t have a historical legacy like Greece, Italy, England, Egypt etc do. To deal with their feelings of insignificance because it’s how they feel and they really shouldn’t they attempt to claim and distort parts of our Greek history. The best approach is to stay calm and not engage with them. The ones that set you over the edge just delete and block. They’re not worth getting angry over.
 
Already I’m glad that you took over the page. Your responses to the haters is off the hook. You’re nice but yet insult them in a polite way lol. That guy from slavomacedonia that was calling us subsaharans you literally destroyed. I couldn’t stop laughing.
 
Omg that was great and what a gyfto! Instead of debating he starts calling us sub saharan africans and even arab! Are these people that stupid? Great job! I wouldn’t know how to respond to people like him.
 
I used to be a professional troll back in the days lol. I guess I became good at it.
 
I used to be a professional troll back in the days lol. I guess I became good at it.

Haha at least you admit it. You know what I find funny? Exactly what you wrote on facebook. The proof is all over the forum. You put down the quote, the line , the source and they don’t acknowledge it. Those people really are uneducated.
 
I’ll be honest with you. It bothers me that in this day and age people like them can be so ignorant when it comes down to history. The proof is everywhere that the ancient Macedonians were Greek. Most modern historians even agree. Most of everything I posted on here I verified myself before sharing on here. What skopians and other trolls from our neighbors do photoshop images, cherry pick and resort to name calling. That makes it very easy for me or anyone to shut the down. They bring nothing to the table because they have nothing.
 
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